Keeping a Sense of Self When Everything Feels Uncertain | Peer Effect Post Bag

James and Freddie tackle a question most founders won't admit they're sitting with: when the business is in flux and you're in performance mode around the clock, how do you stay connected to who you actually are?

This isn't about rest. It's about what happens to your judgment, your team, and your business when you've drifted so far from reality that you stop seeing what's actually in front of you. James and Freddie work through why performance and authenticity aren't opposites, what it costs founders when they treat them as if they are, and why the pattern underneath burnout, co-founder blowups, and bad hiring decisions is often exactly this.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Pure Effect post bag. I'm James Johnson, joined by Freddie Burley. We ask for your questions, and Freddie and I are going to tackle them together. These aren't theoretical case studies, it's the stuff keeping you up at 2 a.m. Let's get answering. So, welcome to the Periffact post bag. This is where we answer your founder questions. I'm James Johnson.

SPEAKER_01 0:22

And I'm Freddie Burley. Welcome. So how has how have the last couple of weeks been?

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Good. I've agreed to something that I never thought I'd agree to do. Oh, always love it when someone starts like that.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

What are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 0:36

I agreed to a Hyrux race.

SPEAKER_01 0:38

Oh my God. So I up until two weeks, like maybe three weeks ago, I'd never heard of Hyrux. And you're like the third or fourth person in the last couple of weeks that's told me that they're doing this.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Elaborate.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Why? Why?

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Well, I'd stayed away from, I've heard about it for a long time. I was like, this just feels like the next thing. Like it's it feels a little bit culty. Yeah. But a really good friend of mine's been doing it. And I used to like go away for the weekend with friends, like go and do like half marathons. It actually was a really nice thing to do. And the more I was talking through through them, I was like, this actually feels quite instinct for I want to focus on. So it's it's only an hour and a half of kind of commitment in terms of doing the race. That's not too crazy. It's an opportunity to go spend time with a friend and go and go cool places. They have different races in different places. Yeah. And it's quite functional fitness. But it does feel as my friend said, so does this mean you have to work out with your top off at all times now?

SPEAKER_01 1:35

It was like that's the that's the energy it gives. It is definitely it really gives like naked energy. It's like everyone's also everyone is ja everyone looks unbelievable. They're so strong. Everyone almost looks like they've oiled up for the race as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Whenever I see any of the pictures, I went, I went on a family holiday and they it was like a it was a Danish resort. And as part of it, they had uh this kind of training center for Crossflits, Crossflit such high rocks. And I went down one day, train session, and I had to had to leave. Like I was I was so much the smallest. Like there were just huge Nordic men, all their tops off, just like I'd like even the women were bigger than me. And I was like, I was so intimidated.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

So fair, you're braver than I am. I I don't see this in my stars, but I love that for you.

SPEAKER_02 2:20

Well, we'll we'll see. Like I actually I I committed without realizing what it entails. It's intense. And I went and did a PT on Friday, and my trainer was like, Oh, have you do you know what you've agreed to? I was like, No, it goes, okay, let's just do one of the exercises then. I couldn't even do like there are eight stations. I couldn't even do one station uh at the moment.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

So Well, you're gonna grow tons, I guess. If you couldn't do one at the moment, then suddenly I feel like when you commit to something that feels really hard and the beginning are like, I can't do one, and then suddenly in like a few weeks' time, you can do three or four. It's your grow loads which will feel satisfying.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Yeah. Let's see. Maybe next podcast we're sitting here with that one. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

You only decided you all podcast shirlers from now on. Brilliant. Viewings go up.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

Or down.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Uh moving swiftly on. Uh, so we've got a great question here from Alex. Um, how do I keep a sense of self in times of uncertainty?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

This is actually the way I interpret this question is uh founders in most contexts of their life, it can be easy to be in performance mode. And what I mean by that is they can feel in their teams, in their co-founder dynamics, um, with their board, sometimes with their investors or even with their families, that they need to be in performance mode. And often times of uncertainty are when you're trying to create the future or the current present feels very uncertain and changing a lot. And so you're kind of trying to grapple into what's real or how do I force what I want to happen or manifest in the real world. And I often think about the opposite of performance being authenticity. But authenticity is much less, it's more of an input than it is an output. And so it's much less structured. It's it's like by being authentic, I don't know what's going to come back at me. Whereas like performance is often much more strategic. It's like by doing these things, I'm increasing the likelihood, I think, of something coming back at me. And I think it's incredibly important, especially when you're a founder or a creator or a builder, when you live so much in like what is it that I'm creating in the future to find the antidote or to find the opposite. So, how do I also create intense times of authenticity, connection? Because often in different ways it manifests in different ways. So that authenticity and connection can come through your partnership. It could come from your relationship with your children, who are very good at getting humans into humbling present moment. And um, it can come from doing hobbies that have no output. So you just do it because you love it. You do it for the sake of doing it, not because it's going to get you to the next level or because you get to show off or talk about it and kind of perform with the hobby. It can come from just like going like out in nature or even forms of exercise that don't feel like you're pushing. They feel more like you do it because you love to do it. And a good sign, I often think of a good signal of authenticity and staying connected to yourself is um when you would describe while doing it that you loved it. It was net energy giving as opposed to energy taking. And sometimes performing can be energy taking, but you're doing it's almost like a service, you're doing a sacrifice for something you want to build or create in the future. So coming kind of full circle on the question of how do I keep a sense of self in times of uncertainty? It's often how do you do things that you feel completely authentic, free, uh, that you love to do alongside things that you feel more like performance-driven. That's how I see it.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

It's not just about sort of nourishment then or kind of recovery. It sounds like choosing things which really tie into your sense of who you are.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Completely. How do you do things that feel like an expression of yourself? And also, especially uh there are other practices, right? Of like how do I stay connected to what I genuinely feel and think, even when I'm aware I'm performing. So that could be reflective practices, like journaling, that could be reflective practices, like very vulnerable and honest conversations with people in your life where you're sharing what you're actually grappling with and what you're actually thinking, as opposed to having to come up with a certain response or feeling like the constantly kind of confident, stable, anchored version. It can be the version of you that's actually feeling really vulnerable and really uncertain and really unconfident, and spaces where you can just be and express that part of yourself. And whether that's therapy, coaching, your partner, like great friend, um, people you just don't have to perform for, you can be truthful with.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

If it feels though, let's say when you're under pressure or uncertain, there may be a tendency to really deprioritize that stuff. Like almost you said, like there's a sensory sort of being authentic self and being performance mode. It feels like there must there might be a real pressure to be like really lean into the performance mode in those times. Like I need to throw everything at this to make it work. How how how do you help yourself not do that?

SPEAKER_01 7:21

I think it's when it becomes an and as opposed to an or. So sometimes we can think about this like completely split. It's like I'm either being authentic or I'm performing. And I think the more integrated version of that can be if you have to be more in kind of performance, like you're going through even like what we've been talking about around AI and um companies changing and pivoting and um founders having to lead through that sense of uncertainty, and then like everything in my life feels uncertain in my business and in the future and in my industry, how you stay connected to your sense of self amongst that can be how do you have spaces where you can be incredibly vulnerable so that you can bring the this is what I know to be true, and this is what I don't know to be true, and that level of authenticity in the performance. I think what can be dangerous is when founders are so or humans are so disconnected from reality that they're communicating, but you just you don't feel it. So they're coming back to their teams and they're talking about like this is where we're going and this is what's happening, but they don't speak to, and I know this can be really scary, and I know a lot of you will be feeling like nervous, or I know they can't speak to like the actual reality and experience of what's happening. And I people feel it and they can, it's like when people act like robots, it can deter your trust for them because you're like, Are you real? Like, do you actually know what's going on? Can you speak to the human experience of what's happening here? So I think it actually can make you much more efficient and effective when you can communicate authentically and in a performative and and perform. So I I I don't know if that does that, did you does that resonate? Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 8:52

I think there's a danger just leaning all the way into say sounds like it's not an either-or for a start, it is an and but also you're leaning too much into one thing, let's say in that performance mode, you're you're you're jumping, you're either jumping to an action which is not thought through, or it sounds like you're also you don't have these safe spaces to sort of filter your thoughts, be truly vulnerable. But it's hard then to bring a slightly more distilled, better version of that back to your team. So either you're sort of you're doing one or two things. Either you're presenting unfiltered thoughts to your team, which I think can be dangerous, and that that's not being authentic, presenting unfiltered thoughts, just it's just distracting, I think. Or it's about not acknowledging that you that you don't have any uncertainty and just going, we're gonna do this without having had a chance of trying to think it through, which I think is also dangerous. Yeah. So I can really see how this it's an and because one is you're giving yourself space to think these things through to a greater degree, but also you're leaving yourself you're protecting yourself so that the best version of you shows up, which gives you the best chance to think things through and be positive for your team and provide energy. Because if if a low energy, uncertain, sort of tired, burnt out version of yourself shows up, that's also no good for the team. So it sounds like you can't have sustainable performance if you're if you're not creating the space to be authentic.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yeah, 100%. I really love how you've I really love how you've articulated that. And when we look at in a kind of extreme example, extreme example of perfor of not maintaining any sense of connection to yourself and moving through uncertainty or change is when people suddenly burn out or they suddenly get like a really intense, acute chronic health condition, or it it all explodes in their co-infounded dynamic because they've they've been kind of performing but not in reality and they've missed lots of signals and cues, or their product is actually completely offbeat because they haven't been as connected to their customers, or you so the not staying connected to yourself, I also think is not staying connected to reality. And so if you're so in the fantasy of where you're going and what you're doing and what you're creating that you you you've missed the reality, that's blocked awareness and that lacks wisdom. So your life will show you the cracks if you if you also don't connect in. And some for some people it can look like a midlife crisis or a any stage of life crisis where you suddenly feel really depressed or completely burnt out, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_02 11:20

I I think the the the the pain doesn't necessarily be even felt by you. If I what I heard also there is a sense of not dealing with the reality of it, means you may be making decisions based on the business that you would like to have rather than the business that you do have. So it's pushing ahead with hires that you shouldn't be making, or making some investment decisions that you shouldn't be making, or like not taking making cuts that maybe you should make, or changing a key system, or changing key people. It's kind of living in slight denial and a bubble going, oh, it's all fine.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Exactly. That's exactly it. That's exactly, exactly it. Um, and the more extreme you become, the more extremely you avoid, often the more extremely you get woken up by something, which in a way is is kind of beautiful because it's kind of I think life re-trying life trying to rebalance us. But um it can be quite brutal.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Yeah, I think this I suppose my my takeaway from this is just it's an and. It's kind of the space, space for you to be authentic and nurture yourself and think and sort of be vulnerable and really like hone yourself and hone your thoughts allows you to lean into performance over the long term. And so it's not an or, although it can feel like at times, but it very much is an and.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, agreed. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Well, that's it for another episode. We will see you guys next week for another one. Uh see you then and happy scaling.