Founder Depression: What Nobody Talks About

Founder life isn’t just pressure - it’s pressure plus isolation.

In this Peer Effect Post bag, James Johnson and Freddie Birley respond to a raw listener question: “I’m managing depression while being a founder - what do I do?”

What follows isn’t advice from a textbook. It’s a grounded, honest conversation about shame, identity, and what it really means to build while not being “fully okay.”

They explore why founders often mistake discipline for worth, how mental health can quietly reshape leadership, and why some of the traits you think are weaknesses might actually be advantages in disguise.

This episode is about learning to stop fighting yourself long enough to actually see what’s going on - and deciding what to change, and what to carry differently.

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Connect with James on LinkedIn or at peer-effect.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to the Pure Effect Postbag. I'm James Johnson, joined by Freddie Burley. We ask for your questions, and Freddie and I are going to tackle them together. These aren't theoretical case studies, it's the stuff keeping you up at 2 a.m. Let's get answering. Welcome to the Pure Effect post bag. I'm James Johnson.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

And I'm Freddie Burley. So what have you what's been going on this week? What have you been up to?

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I've embraced my inner mammal and become a gardener.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Oh nice.

SPEAKER_01 0:33

Yeah. I know something I never thought would happen. Like I've never I've never gardening has never appealed to me. I've always actively avoided it. And we moved into a new place last year and I basically left it for a year. And they'd done a really good job beforehand. And then about two weeks ago, I was like, I need to Dexie had basically destroyed our garden.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Your dog.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Yeah. And well between Dexie, so Dexie, well, just because your dog needs peas everywhere. And Diggs occasionally would try to find stuff. And then we got Artie this kind of house for the garden, which basically destroys the lawn wherever it wherever it is. Yeah. So you move it around. So basically, I looked at the garden, it was just a disaster. I was like, I need to sort this out. And I was kind of doing it grudgingly. And then it was really cute. Artie got really into it. And so when I was doing it, he was doing it. And Marcello had gone like this this like sort of plastic lawn mower. And so when I was mowing the grass, he was mowing it alongside with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Oh my gosh, that's so heartwarming.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

And I was like, when I was cutting things off, then he wanted he always wanted to put the things in the in the green in the garden bin and stuff. So actually, this is kind of this is good role modelling. It's kind of fun we're doing it together. I can get into this. Yeah. And so we spent most of the weekend out there sort of cutting stuff and doing stuff. And he loved it. And he came came to the garden centre with me and he was like, Can we go and explore? I was like, we can't go to get back. Can we come again next weekend? And we can look everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Oh my gosh, that's so cute. So so cute. But you're right, it is it's good modeling. And it's also bonding. Yeah. Because you're doing something shared, there's a purpose to it. It's not you making up something that you need to do together. It's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

And I think sometimes it comes to like sort of self-identity. I was like, I am not a gardener. That was quite a sort of, I don't know why that was such a strong self-identity, but it was. And then suddenly when I was like, actually, this is connecting to being a good dad, suddenly it kind of folded in in a way and I kind of embraced it. And it wasn't even like a conscious thing. It was like suddenly from being something that I just it wasn't who I was. Yeah. Just suddenly being part of very much who I was. Yeah. So now I'd say I'm a very bad gardener. That is that is my new identity.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

But a good dad.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Hopefully. A slightly less worse one.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Oh, that's nice. That's really nice.

SPEAKER_01 2:39

Anyway, we'll jump jump into the question. And Jake sent us a question, which is I'm managing depression while also being a founder. What do I do?

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Um I think this obviously we don't have the context or kind of full picture, but I think this is a question of I'm managing a serious health condition alongside being in a role where I've got such high expectations of myself and people around me have very high expectations. What I've seen quite a bit in coaching, especially when it comes to depression or different health conditions, that can feel, especially when they're really acute, is there can be a lot of shame in having a condition that they perceive to make them weaker or deficient in some way. Um and the w desire to be strong and to be impressive and to be showing up in an admirable way. And so I think often the first layer here in sessions is exploring the shame and exploring the feeling of this is a bad thing, this is wrong. Um and what I find really interesting is I mean, obviously, especially when it comes to health conditions or any condition that you wish you didn't have, if there's anything in your control to change that or to adapt, then of course you double down. So you go and see the specialist, you do the practices that are helpful, um, you explore different forms of medication if you want, like you look at all the controllables. And if you're genuinely exploring all the controllables that support change, then we have this option in life to like change or choose, basically, when it comes to things that show up in our lives that we wish were different. And so the changing part is what's in my control. And then there's also a part that's around surrender and around, okay, how do I live alongside this? And what I found to be the most powerful reframe for a lot of the founders that I work with is if at the moment the story I'm telling myself is this is inhibiting me as a founder, how do I actually explore how this makes me an exceptional founder or makes me extraordinary? And with the with depression, what I've seen, that example specifically, and we can look at other health conditions too. But if you think about what depression can do, it can mean that some mornings you wake up and you genuinely feel like you can't get out of bed, or you have zero energy, or you're in an incredibly low mood, or you've got incredible brain frog, frog, fog. And those damn brain frogs. Classic. The classic brain frogs we all know and love. Um and what it does do is when you have less time, it means you have to prioritize much more efficiently. And so one benefit of having depression is that you have to be much more effective in your prioritization. You also become really good at adapting to things that are out of your control and having to just deal with what's in front of you. And so what I've also observed with clients that have depression is sometimes they can be really good at adapting to chaotic or negative situations and dealing with it live. Um, what I've also seen is it can help them have empathy and um uh a sort of humility ability to connect with other people when they're going through hard times or um things that are outside their control. Um, it can make them a more um two feet on the ground leader. Like they're in, they they've gone through hard things, they're more resilient, they're um, they've suffered and and and with something that's kind of ongoing for them too. So I've seen like a lot of benefits alongside the negatives that exist. Um, so that's another practice that I find really helpful and just building a new relationship with it so that you can do everything in your control to show up in the best way possible. But equally, if there are if it emerges and you can't change it, you can't control it, then you find a way to relate to it and then leverage those superpowers or gifts that come alongside it.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

And do you find that when clients buy into that messaging in terms of when they lean into oh how do I fit a superpower, that does lead to a change of behavior?

SPEAKER_00 6:43

Yeah, a massive change of behavior. Because there's a new source of energy of this thing I thought that was harming me can also be helping me in some ways. And it's not false positive thinking. You're really looking for kind of cause and effects of when when you're in that headspace or when that happens, what do you do next? And um, what I find is it creates a kind of surge of energy and less shame. So you're investing less energy in like hiding something within yourself and more energy in like how do I leverage the spikes? How do I make the most of the opportunities and beware of the risks?

SPEAKER_01 7:16

I think founders generally are quite prone to just, why aren't I superhuman? It's kind of like, why aren't I sort of disciplined with myself all the time? Like, why can't I maintain this high-level energy regardless? Why can't it's like where is this kind of superhuman benchmark appeared from? And actually kind of missing that we're flawed in some way is actually quite can be quite helpful. Yeah. And I'm I'm wondering like I would would you say for them to be sort of transparent with their team around what they're going through as well?

SPEAKER_00 7:51

It's so individual. I don't have a I honestly don't have an opinion on this. I think it's so personal. Some leaders are very transparent with their team and they see it as um the benefits of being transparent are everyone's on the same page, you can be aligned, your team can support you when you're having, in whatever the health condition is, when you're having um hotter patches where you're actually going to really need their support. Um so some I've seen people go down that route. I've also seen people who are like, it actually doesn't serve the way I show up in my team. Um, and I prefer to manage it myself and to manage it privately, which is completely their um it's up to them. And I think like you can look at the pros and cons of both and then just make an informed decision. And equally in different seasons it might change. So there might be a period of time where you actually you feel more bonded with your team or you feel more kind of steadfast in your position and the company doesn't feel as vulnerable, or you don't feel as vulnerable, and therefore you feel um you feel okay to just be like, this is it is what it is, and this is how I am. So I think it totally depends on the human.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah. Um and it does feel like going to authentically is is quite important. But I think I think I think that there is quite lots controllable in there as well. Like a lot of sort of the self-pressure we put on ourselves, the um lifestyle that goes alongside, so the all-in destroy yourself lifestyle that can sit alongside it. Yeah. A lot of these things, and then so some of the coping messages that come alongside that, whether it's alcohol or substances or just throwing more work, there are a lot of sort of factors that would predispose founders, I think, to have some of these challenges that probably can be dealt with in that sort of deal with sort of or change or choose. Yeah. There is quite a bit to change. Yeah. But if you when you get to that point, I I really like the idea of like how can you flip it into choosing, like, how can you really take the positives and what you've learned from it and sort of empathy with your team? Because our team will go through all sorts of challenges, won't they? They do go through challenges.

SPEAKER_00 10:13

Yeah, completely. And especially in the volatility of startups and um so much life life in the process of growing and scaling and the company changing. So but I I also totally respect the people. I I trust people to know when the time is right to share different conditions and when they want to manage it themselves and when they want to share it more with their team.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

I think it's it's so individual and it's so personal. Um yeah. Have you have you seen different founders navigating depression or like acute health conditions as they're building?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Uh I would say I've seen founders go through a lot, I mean, sort of pregnancy, not clearly not an acute health condition, but certainly when a physical physical, significant physical change has c impact, like does a mental pressure of impact for me on running a business or my ability on time, or what am I gonna like what people are gonna think? Yeah. Um definitely I've seen sort of founders push to that level where they're trying to deal with it through alcohol or drugs or something, just because that's and that feels like in the moment the right way to sort of maintain energy. It's like how do I maintain this pace? Well, I need to do something. Yeah. Um, which then causes a whole set of problems in terms of their behaviour and pace in the wrong direction is not a good thing. Yeah, yeah. Um and yeah, so I thought so temp temporary not depression, but temporary setbacks can lead to temporary change in energy or feeling distracted. I think people deal with with cancer going through it, like of of different types, and which makes you think about is it worth it? Where am I focusing my efforts? Yeah. Um because ultimately found funds are people. Yeah, exactly. It's like what happens to humans.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Yeah, it's like mean things happen to humans.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

So this is a really inconvenient timing. You just just come back after the fundraise and we'll deal with it then.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Exactly. Weirdly, I often find that life life, especially in these really intense moments, like it's fundraising, and then suddenly there's a crazy health challenge, or something happens in someone's family, or like alongside these really pivotal moments. And I think the principle is still the same of like, what's in your control, double down on that, what's out of your control, how do you let go of it? And the only way I found that people let go of what's out of their control is they genuinely believe there are benefits in the negative thing happening. So they can see that like they're growing, they're gonna be okay. Um, that this challenge perhaps may even be showing up to help them grow in ways that they can't join the dots on yet. But in the future it will make more sense looking back. And yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

I think that's I mean the idea of it's happening to other people though as well. I mean, that's hard when it's I mean that comes out quite a lot. Sort of something happens to someone's partner or their parents or their kids or their like their pet like a whole range of things challenges can happen, and then I think that's even sometimes harder because it founders are quite practiced at sort of submerging their own needs. But suddenly when it's those of the around them, it's kind of they've really got to make a choice. Yeah. I think that's quite hard.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

It's it's yeah, like for all humans, it's it's horrible. It's really, really challenging.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

But I think I think my takeaway from this is just if you can look for where the positive is and what you're actually taking from it. Yeah. And if you can really buy into that and lean into it and not just use it as kind of like a smokescreen, but like this really is a thing, it can actually bring some real benefits with it.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

Yeah, I totally agree.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

Amazing. That's us for another week. Uh, we'll see you next Monday for another post bag and hit subscribe, and we'll see you next Monday.