Best Performer Worst Behaved: What to Do When Your Top Team Member Is Toxic

"My best performing team member is also my worst behaved. What should I do?"

Jack sent this to James Johnson and Freddie Birley for Peer Effect Post Bag.

The answer is clear: one is worse than the other.

What you'll hear:

Why under-behaving vs underperforming are fundamentally different problems. James explains which one is more detrimental to your business and why most founders get this wrong.

The myth of "this person is irreplaceable." James and Freddie have seen this story play out dozens of times. It always ends the same way. The pattern they reveal will surprise you.

How to have the conversation without making it worse. There's a specific way to frame it so they actually hear you. Most founders skip the critical first step.

Why you shouldn't take ownership of their change. Where the line is between supporting someone and trying to rescue them. James explains what's in your control and what isn't.

The hidden cost nobody talks about. It's not about team performance. It's about what it does to you as a founder. James shares how long he spent on one person and why he wishes he'd acted sooner.

When to accelerate clarity vs when to wait. If you know it's a priority, the conversation does one of two things. Both are good. James and Freddie explain why procrastinating costs more than acting.

The reality:

This conversation requires preparation. But avoiding it costs more than having it.

The headspace these situations take is enormous. It affects your enjoyment, motivation, and excitement about the business.

One action: Listen to the end for how to know if you should have this conversation now.

More from James:

Connect with James on LinkedIn or at peer-effect.com 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Peri Effect postback. I'm James Johnson, joined by Freddie Burley. We asked for your questions, and Freddie and I are going to tackle them together. These aren't theoretical case studies. It's the stuff that's keeping you up at 2 a.m. Let's get answering. So welcome to the Pure Effect Podcast. I'm James Johnson. And I'm Freddie Burley.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

So how's it going? How's the last week been?

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Well, I I uh sounds silly say, but I I got injured by my four four-year-old.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Oh classic.

SPEAKER_00 0:30

We are our heating broke and you're spending the night in our bed. And I woke up at sort of three o'clock in the morning. He'd need me in the back. No. And I was like, that was that was quite sore. I didn't think much of it. And then the next day I was sort of trying to go for a run. I was like, this is this is not working. And it turns out that actually they're quite dangerous, four-year-olds. We managed to displace my rib.

SPEAKER_01 0:49

They should come with a warning sign. Oh my gosh. Wait, so he displaced your your hip? Rib. Rib.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Yeah. Like uh it's actually slightly less serious than it sounds. Basically, your body kind of overreacts to trauma. You've got these things. He did tell me, the osteopath did tell me like the actual details of this. But so when you hear something technical, yeah, what you what what's been said and what you receive is two very different things. Totally. So the non-technical version is there's something in between your ribs, which like a muscle or something, that if it hits in the right way, particularly when you're sort of not tense, can can overreact. So basically put that that then swells up and pushes your rib out of alignment, and then your body goes, Oh, that's not good, because your heart and your various other important stuff's around there. And uh yeah. So now uh sore. Sore. But no running. No running. No running, no weights practice. You you should you shouldn't stop doing stuff. Who who knew?

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Who knew you needed to heal? Who knew?

SPEAKER_00 1:43

But it was actually weirdly sort of validating when I went to see the Oscher and was like, no, this is this is a thing. Like you're not being pathetic.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah. Yeah, you're like, I'm allowed to complain. This is intense.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

This hurts.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Golly, so question from Jack, which I think lots of people can relate to. My best performing team member is also my worst behaved. What should I do?

SPEAKER_00 2:06

This is a tougher, isn't it? Because like you you see the performance, you know, I rely on this person for the performance. Unfortunately, I can't rely on their performance. Like it's kind of I I see that behavioural thing playing out twice. I mean, it's what how Jack's saying it, but this sometimes it's behaviour you but you can't rely on performance because someone is unreliable, and therefore their behaviour is like they'll do it sometimes, it won't do other times. Yeah, and sometimes the way they go about doing it is toxic for the for the rest of the business. Yeah. Um, or truly, truthfully, both of those behaviours are toxic for business because if you can't rely on their performance, you need to plan as if it won't happen, which is debilitating, and you have to go slower. And if their behaviour is toxic, then it impacts everyone else's performance and sets the wrong benchmark for everyone else. So I think it's a very hard situation to be in.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

And I think I personally feel that underbehaving is more detrimental than underperforming because underbehaving affects everyone, whereas underperforming is is is sort of contained. Contained.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

But sometimes you do have, and it sounds like Jack does, someone who's so critical, their performance is so critical that you almost feel like you can't replace them. Like you know instinctively that you should, but it's like it might be a sort of a technical person or a salesperson, might be like, sometimes it's your top performing salesperson or your most key developer, or and it's like, what do I do then? And I think the answer is still the same. I just think the timing shifts for me. So I think the ty the the the sort of action is flag the behaviours to the person. Often people have not ever had that conversation because they're used to being so good at their job, no one's ever raised it with them. That can be difficult because you don't like talking about behaviour, they don't like receiving it. But if you can get that clarity and can say what is acceptable, what is not, that is the ideal solution. But sometimes you can't like you have a conversation, there's no admi admittance, acceptance, and therefore you're like, okay, what what now?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

I think then the answer is if you can't change behaviour, you do need to change the person because the impact on the rest of the team is so key. Yeah. I think the thing that varies there is the timing of it. Because if they're so critical, like you can't just remove your top performing salesperson or your key developer at that moment. But you I think it is worth thinking about what you would need to do to be able to replace them if they don't do it. And that may be in three months, that may be in six months, it may be in a year's time post your next raise, like it's but I think making a decision on what that timeline is and having a plan is quite critical. Otherwise you're coming back to that same decision every time that behaviour flares, it's like, oh I shouldn't accept this, but I am. Should I make a change? It's kind of like I think it's about making that decision and going, this is when I can make the change. If they won't, if they won't change behaviour, and this is what I can do in the meantime.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Yeah, 100%. And I think that also that framing makes you feel so much more in control when I I've seen when people do accept bad behavior that they see is impacting the team, it can also sometimes be a hit on their confidence because they feel a bit like they're in a rock between a rock and a hard place where they're not either not directly talking about the behavior because they're worried then that person will start underperforming and be both underperforming and a negative impact on the team, but actually framing it in that way of okay, in this timeline, this is what I'm gonna do because this is what the priorities are. And in the meantime, how do I frame this conversation in a way that will increase the likelihood of them hearing it? In your framing those conversations around talking about feedback or bad behaviour as opposed to performance, how do you how do you help your clients frame it?

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Yeah, so I would generally say we don't as business talk about behavior because performance is a bit more subjective. Totally. So I suppose that's why I put so my sort of no excuses framework, which is to give people language to have around behaviour. So that actually if everyone has the same language, then these conversations are a lot easier to have because it makes it clearer what you're trying to say, and people you have the langu the safe language to have it. Yeah. I think often even outside of work, we're ill-equipped to have behavioural conversations because we're just not it's not something we're we're ever trained to do.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Um so I would say one, be willing to have it, which I think most people are, once they realise the consequence, they can really admit themselves the consequence of that bad behaviour. Yeah. But I think then giving them very specific tools in terms of how to have that conversation um and making sure that everyone has the same language, access to the same language, I think makes a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yeah, yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 6:49

How how about you?

SPEAKER_01 6:51

Um It's a tough one because as you say, performance is often much more quantitative, and so when someone's underperforming, you can point at results, and so it makes it less personal. And as soon as you start talking about behaviors, it suddenly feels more subjective and more personal much quicker. Um and it can also feel like emotions get heightened faster. Um I think there's a classic framework of like when you do X, the impact on people is Y. My hope for the future would be Z. And um, some people in in and outside of work could also use the framework of when you do X, I feel Y. Um and the impact is Z, um, and my hope for the future would be X, Y, and Z. Um But it depends on how extreme we're also talking, and also it's really interesting because in my experience, I think the the idea that that person is irreplaceable, in my experience of managing lots of people through really challenging behavior in companies, is that the the conclusion has always been, and then I found this amazing person. There's always this like, and then this incredible person kids. So the the story of this person is irreplaceable, I I would really highly challenge that story in itself. And that's often one of I think of it more of an excuse and a way of procrastinating than a means of actual truth. Um and yes, that hire hiring them might not be your actual priority, but if it's actually the priority that's coming up in reality, then you kind of have to adapt to it sometimes too. Um, and what I found in my experience too is when people do have those conversations and they name, like, this is what I'm seeing, um, I would love like you're incredibly valued. Also, that's the other piece that people often forget and feedback is like start with all of the things that human does really well and the ways in which they do contribute and truthfully and specifically, so that they they feel appreciated and seen for the value they do create. And alongside it being like, I would love this to be a long-term relationship, I would love us to grow together in this company. And for growth, we both have to be really honest about where we can improve, and these are opportunities I see for you to improve. Um, so it's framed very much like I trust you, I see you on the same page, and also my hope for the future would be that we continue growing. Um, and growth requires challenge, it requires feedback, it requires like very open dialogue on both sides. So I think um that kind of framing people often see and hear.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

I think what's also nice there is not to take that ownership of their change. So I think you I think what you can control is say you say lay out the behaviours, yeah, be very honest, say what's working well, what's not.

SPEAKER_01 9:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

But if they don't want to make the change, I don't think that's on you as the founder in terms of there may be reasons to their behaviour, there may be trauma attached to their behaviour, there may be a whole range of things, and actually you can't change them as a person. You can merely lay out the I think the facts as objectively and as kindly as you possibly can, yeah. Without taking going, I'm gonna rescue you and change that, because that's that's not your job. So it's not like, oh, I'm gonna pay for you to have therapy for three years, or I think you like you need to do this. It's like that because that's just your opinion. But I so I think not going too far down that sort of ownership path.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

That's so, so, so true. And I think sometimes that can then become an even bigger if you go down the ownership path, then it becomes a huge time sink on your energy and your headspace, whereas laying out your expectations are is completely in your control, and also empowering them to be like, I know that you can change your behavior if you'd like to. So the choice is kind of yours. There's a path in which you change and adapt and you get to grow, and these would be the benefits. There's a path in which you don't adapt, and then we're going to be having the same conversation in a month's time. And then if that continues, this could be the impact on the team, and that's in your hands. It's sort of like putting it across them as different paths. And what I found to be true is every time that you have that conversation in a grounded, balanced way, where also as a founder, you're not attached to them changing or not changing. You're like, my hope is this, but it's it's it's down to you to change or or not change. There's something about I people up level in their leadership and in their ability to kind of move through these people behavior and um is really complicated and hard. But actually, like when you break it down into outline your expectations, put it over to them. If they change, great. If they don't change, then also then you're gonna have to make hard decisions, or actually they become much easier when when you've had those conversations.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

So true. And what would you say then about the fear of I'm gonna have the conversation and actually I'm gonna sort of crystallize a problem that was sort of I could sort of get away with not crystallizing? So I might trigger them into sort of you say, switch from bad behavior, good performance to bad behavior, bad performance, or there might not be a change, or what what how would you address that?

SPEAKER_01 11:53

It's your you're accelerating clarity. When you're procrastinating over not having the conversation, if you know it's important and that there's a there's a there's a voice inside of you, right, as as you're scaling a company, there are so many different priorities and there are lots of different fires at different times. And when you take a step back and you think, what are my key priorities? you'll know whether this is sitting within that or if it's not. And so if it does sit in the bucket of no, this is a key priority and a problem I need to address now, and therefore having the conversation is important, then um crystallizing that a problem is a problem, then either they have the opportunity to change and adapt, or they have the opportunity to not change, and then you've got your answer. And so what I'd say is like if you're on the fence, do I have the conversation, do I not? Like asking yourself, is this a key business priority right now? And if the answer, if intuitively you know it is as well, um, then it just it enforces growth and it enforces clarity.

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Yeah, and I think if you have the conversation the right way, you've got the best chance of at least it not being a detrimental thing to do. Yeah, it can only be positive. At least you get clarity, so you get clarity for yourself. Yes. I I always think we underestimate how much headspace these things take up in. 100%. If I go back to sort of there's one person in my career who I used to probably spend every management course I went on, I'd use them as an example. I'd probably think about the most weekends like how I could fit, like what I was doing wrong, how I could change, what I could fix. Yeah. I'd probably go on for about a year where I was like, Yes, oh, if I and I wish I've subsequently learned to have that conversation way quicker because it's just it uses up way too much energy and thought time, and so that the hidden cost of not having that conversation and the impact on you as the founder in terms of your enjoyment, your motivation, like are you excited about your team, are you excited about the future? Yeah. Because you know that's a landmine that every Monday you're probably going to step on once that week.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

Completely. And I think you also respect yourself a lot after you've had the conversation in the right way. If you practice, you framed it well. That the first couple of times you do it, and like exactly like you're saying, I think we've all had a couple of big teachers or people who are really tough to manage, or um or you've been on the receiving end of really challenging management. And so you you I think often those people teach us a lot about the discomfort, yes, of leaning into those conversations, but then the power and the clarity that comes from the other side. And then each time you have the conversation, also it's it's an opportunity to practice getting better at having it. And the more skilled and um kind of it's a it's a competency, it's a skill giving good feedback. And so the more you do it, the more competent you become, the less emotional it is, the less deep it is. It's just like it suddenly becomes this is essential for our performance as a company. And if we're not, if I can't demonstrate that behaviour as a founder, then I can't expect my team to do it. And so I'm gonna have to lead the way on this. And everyone finds it uncomfortable, everyone spends more time thinking about it than they they should when they haven't done it very much, and and then it just becomes easier and easier as you go.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yeah, I think it's probably a nice point for Nishan. Just the the necessity to skill that needs to practice, yeah, but have those conversations when you're prepared.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

Because they are tricky conversations, yeah. You probably do have emotion attached to it. They've the person who's speaking to us emotion attached to it.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

The calmer, the more prepared you are, the better environment you have it in, the clearer you are in terms of what the outcome looks like and what's good and what's not, which a lot again comes down to preparation, the higher the chance of success, I think.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Yeah, 100%. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Awesome. Well, if everyone listening, we'll look forward to seeing you next week. As ever, if any questions, reach out at hello at peer-effect.com or get in touch on LinkedIn. So happy scaling and see you next week.