Peer Effect
Best way to scale? Your peers have the answers.
This is the podcast for scaleup founders looking for insightful, actionable wisdom from some of the best operators around. Each week we’ll explore one secret that other founders and experts are using right now and how to implement it.
It’s practical wisdom to build the company AND life you want. Hosted by renowned founder coach and advisor James Johnson.
You’ve survived to £1m, now let’s scale to £10m+.
Peer Effect
Mastering Risk, Return, and Real Estate, with Colton Pace
Imagine having the secrets of billionaire real estate moguls at your fingertips, transforming the way you manage your most significant investment—your home.
Today, we uncover how Colton Pace, CEO of OwnWell, is democratising high-end real estate management tools for everyday homeowners and investors.
In this episode, we explore:
- How Colton Pace's exposure to billionaire real estate strategies inspired the creation of OwnWell.
- The importance of embracing risks and the impact of strategic investments in startup growth.
- Practical advice for other founders on navigating the venture-backed startup ecosystem.
Learn more about Colton Pace's groundbreaking work at Ownwell and follow him on LinkedIn for updates and insights.
More from James:
Connect with James on LinkedIn or at peer-effect.com
Imagine having the secrets of billionaire real estate moguls at your fingertips, transforming the way you manage your most significant investment your home. What if you could apply the same strategies that the world's wealthiest use to maximise their property values and minimise their costs? Well, colton Pace, ceo of OwnWell, is making this a reality, offering tools once reserved for the financial elite to homeowners and investors across the spectrum. I'm your host, james Johnson, and I coach Series A plus founders to take back control so they can take their business further and live a great life. You're listening to Peer Effect, the podcast that fuels you with new ideas and inspiration through interviews with founders and experts who've made it happen. Let's get started.
Speaker 2:When I worked for a large family office. The way billionaires manage their real estate is totally different than my friends and family ever did so that's what led to founding OwnWell. Like the tools, tips, resources, access that the world's most sophisticated investors with the most amount of capital like. What do they do? And then, what of those tools, tips and tricks can normal people do? And with single?
Speaker 2:family homes we all own homes. Yes, they're much more valuable and much less valuable, but the processes that we go through make sense at pretty much every level. And that's where OwnWell started with a property tax reduction product and that's applicable for all types of homes. So we built software to help service a $100,000 home to a $10 million home right. So it's both like how can we make a biggest impact we can on the world, in addition to providing access and education to homeowners everywhere?
Speaker 1:We tend to become homeowners later on in life and we don't do it very many times, and so we don't do it in a very smart way. There's probably lots of money we leave on the table, or money we waste, or Totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the biggest asset we'll ever own likely for the majority of us. Right, and it's leveraged. Right. We have this big loan. That's like multiplying the effect of this investment. Oftentimes you have to buy a home in a pinch, or it's like it's pretty fast, You're like moving somewhere and it's a massive decision. We think a lot more about our 401k or like our retirement fund than we do our home.
Speaker 1:I suppose also there's a lot of emotion. I think that goes into a house purchase.
Speaker 2:And you said a use sort of seed series a what sort of stage are you guys now? Yeah, so we're a series, a company we're growing quickly, we're in a situation where we're profitable, so we we're venture-backed, but we're kind of control our own destiny at this point it's the fun part, but it's also a tricky part where kind of the role changes, your company changes pressures change it's good you go from like survival, focus on survival, to like this kind of deluge of opportunity and it makes it sort of a bit realer in some way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the exact words you just said I say all the time. It's like we're fighting for our survival. I still like the urgency, right, I don't want to let go of the startup DNA and like the fight to be better. But yeah, you're totally right. My Series A investor actually always says if your job's not changing every but yeah, you're totally right. My Series A investor actually always says if your job's not changing every six months, you're not doing it right.
Speaker 1:What's a unique insight that you'd share to the founders, and so what's the story behind it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, swing bigger, take more risk and from the beginning, especially at the beginning, time and time again, we didn't bet on ourselves as founders. We should have. If you're raising money, it's to take big bets and to swing right. Venture investors want high returns, so don't be penny wise, pound foolish and trust your gut. We could have done that. The story behind that, as you were asking for, is we've raised three rounds of financing a pre-seed, seed and series A now. We've always kept a lot of cash in the bank. We've always been really conservative. We've always made sure we were never in a pinch. Time and time again, we wish we spent more money, we wish we invested more, we wish we were okay with a slightly lower ROI. We could have gone bigger, we could have done things faster and I think, looking back in my next startup, I'll definitely try and do that more quickly and trust yourself.
Speaker 1:So let's say you give a specific example of something that you didn't do but you feel would have sort of moved the needle for you in some way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think like early signs of success, just like send it right. So there were times our business early on, we were sending a lot of direct mail. Marketing Direct mail is a big channel for us. We would send like batches of like 500 pieces and it would work. But we'd be like is that statistically significant? And this is like a very basic example, right?
Speaker 2:um so then we send 50 grand more, it's like no, we should have sent 500 grand more. Um, because we had the capital and it came back like we saw it come back and the return was there.
Speaker 1:So it's when you see something working like pedal to the metal what do you think was it that stopped you going to 50,000, 500,000 more in the moment?
Speaker 2:I think initially, like that's our myself and I had two co-founders um, it's kind of our nature to be like, okay, we're not going to fail, we're not willing to risk it enough that we will fail. And then, secondly, it was the time right. We founded it during COVID terrible time like end of 2021, 2022, I guess like venture bubble had kind of burst and terrible time to raise, so like we were in a situation where it was scary to be low on cash and we were seeing people take down rounds or be in a tough situation.
Speaker 2:So I think both the environment and some of our like collective nature as founders was against the advice I'm now giving it was.
Speaker 1:It was a tough time and a lot of businesses couldn't raise and I imagine having that money in the bank did give you it's like peace of mind at the time. So what is it that that now makes you think that you'd have pushed yourself out of your comfort zone and stepped away from that peace of mind?
Speaker 2:Fundamentally and I should know this, so I should listen to my own advice. But as a venture investment, failing isn't the worst thing in the world Investors anticipate some of their portfolio to fail. It's not spending. They've invested in you as a founder. It's not taking a bet. It's not following the vision. I'm always surprised when, occasionally, you hear about founders returning money and that, for whatever reason, that could make sense. But the whole point is, especially at the early stages, the investors are investing in you as a founder and as an entrepreneur to spend that money, to allocate capital, and if you're just holding onto a bag of money, it's a bad return. So if you think about what investors actually want you to do in addition to what you should be doing because if you raise venture money, you're trying to make a life-changing business and grow very quickly like logically you should be spending faster, you should be moving faster, and when you find things that work, investors are there to back up the truck.
Speaker 1:When you think when, when things are working just by taking vc money, you are acknowledging that you're playing a different type of game. You're going to bootstrap it. Maybe you go into it with a different mentality of like watch the bank balance, but like accept the risk of failure and embrace the risk of failure if you're going to take VC money.
Speaker 2:Totally An investor would rather you fail quickly, and so for everybody, founder included like if the business isn't going to work, you want to figure it out as fast as possible. We just always say, like someone's paid a million dollars to figure this out, you should be willing pay $100,000 to turn over a stone in a month rather than six months.
Speaker 1:You're trying to prove. Let's say you've got a million pounds a million dollars in this case a million dollars to prove something. Prove it as quick as you can rather than taking forever, because that's going to impact your ability to test more things in future. It's not just like a one-time game.
Speaker 2:You know, time's the only resource we can't get more of. So when you prove things and it's a good investment a lot of times you're you're able to get more to put behind that. So I wouldn't hesitate.
Speaker 1:I'm going to check out with some vc guests in future. Yeah, because I like the logic of it. It's kind of like if you test, test the hypothesis, test it fast, and actually you'd'd rather a founder fail to say fail quickly. And then if they were good and they experimented effectively, not just blindly.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you're now at Series A. Does that same logic apply at Series A?
Speaker 2:Yes, in segments of the business I would say we're at a stage now where it's like we're building new, additional cross-sell products and things like that. It's like I very much want those pods in that section of the organization to be like we're starting a new company. It's like, no, we should not care about the $15,000 contract for the software to sell this product that we can see in the model or financial model or projections that could be millions. That's a bet we should be willing to take all day to sell this product that we can see in the model or financial model or projections that could be millions. Right, like that's a bet we should be willing to take all day. Whereas with the larger scale business and for me personally right now, my job is changing and I'm dealing a lot with legal right Like bigger scale, more customers, more risk, like more room to fall right.
Speaker 2:So the more revenue you bring in, the bigger clients you have. The more clients you have, the more legal risks, compliance risks, right, like we in the past 12 months have done all the SOC 2 audit stuff right, and that's just to have public company partnerships at this point, like there's all these boxes we have to check to scale as an organization in addition to people, and that's so in certain areas you have to be very diligent in the way you spend money, but then definitely still agree that there is a portion of the business that we should be.
Speaker 1:I love to treat it as many startups within the startup what's a external insight that you've come across in the last six months that sort of inspired you and you'd share with other founders?
Speaker 2:Well, actually, my executive coach recommended a book to me and I think, like two pieces here, the book's Crucial Conversations. Everybody should read the book. And then the second piece of insight is actually a quote from an investor. Eventually, all problems become people problems, and especially as a founder of a business that's scaling, it's all about the people. People are our greatest asset. People are both our customers right Like? They're paying our salaries and everybody here, and so that book, in tandem with that quote, right, crucial conversations, helps you really have any type of conversation, and that's from personal to professional relationships, whether it's giving performance feedback. Feedback's a gift Sooner, again like sooner rather than later. There's no reason to wait, no reason to put it on a list and wait for a performance review cycle.
Speaker 2:Right Like we're all here, especially at a startup, to grow and to learn, and at least in our culture we try to have a no-surprise culture. From every conversation, we want to ask for feedback, give feedback, be open to feedback. One of our core values is to go far together as a company, as a people manager and I've managed people people before, but not people who are way smarter than me and way more experienced than myself the amount of time going into crucial conversations that you prepare is likely often longer than the conversation itself to to do that correctly and totally worth it.
Speaker 1:So it sounds like like there's different types of conversations, different types of people, and then there's general tips. Is there a particular type of conversation you find yourself having more as your business is growing?
Speaker 2:Yes, just because there's more people. I have a lot of the hard ones that no one enjoys having, but I guess the most common one and honestly the hardest one for me. Giving both positive and critical feedback does not come naturally to me, comes almost as like an afterthought or I'll drop it all at once. And that's what I meant, like I was speaking from experience. When there's a list of things like I want to talk to someone about but I'm waiting to talk to tell the performance review, it's like I realized very quickly that helps no one for me to put it on a list and wait six months to talk about it.
Speaker 2:Going into these types of performance conversations, I very much want to flip it. I want you to do the same thing to me. I had one of my coaches do a 360 review of myself when we started and interviewed everybody around me direct reports, skip levels, investors, people on the board and that single piece of feedback may have been the most valuable thing I've ever received in my career, like highlighting things I'm terrible at, things I'm good at, like things I can reinforce. But a lot of the things I'm speaking to now are very evident in performance conversations. They're uncomfortable and they're few and far between, whereas if we just build a culture of constant communication and, like I way, feedback, those are the types of conversations that I'm having the most and are very crucial.
Speaker 1:Have you heard of Radical Candor by Kim? Scott, Absolutely yes, it feels like there's a lot of the same concepts coming out in this.
Speaker 2:And that's very startup. Our head of operations actually gives that book to everybody who starts. So absolutely, that's part of our culture. But don't use, you know, the term radical. It's like, oh well, I'm going to be radically candid and then be a jerk Right, like that's always the like, the cliche with that, that term. But we definitely, we definitely try and employ that Like you, just we, everybody should assume positive intent and believe that we're all here for a reason and we're all here to improve each other, and that's why one of our core values is go far together.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. I'm going to have a read of this book because it feels like it sounds very synergistic with Radical Candor, which I'm with you. It's amazing. But it can also be used as a cover. Companies and individuals brand wash all the time with greenwash or all sorts of stuff. So, um, just people misuse it doesn't necessarily mean it's not right. Yeah, exactly what's like a sort of a practical hack or tip you would share with the founders.
Speaker 2:That kind of has made makes a difference for you um, I have a google doc that I I'm having a shit day and my co-founder actually really taught me to do this and there's some days you just walk in as a founder and you're staring down the precipice I think Elon Musk said something about what it's like to found a company. Insert that quote here. But basically, tough stuff is punching you in the face. You're waking up to a Slack message or an email or a cease and desist letter, right, like there's. There's so many things we have to deal with that you can't really comprehend and it almost seems to get worse, but you get. They like get bigger, but you get better at handling them.
Speaker 2:So it's like you, you rise to the occasion as they rise, and every day when I'm having a terrible day, I basically write down why I'm having a shit day, and one like just getting it down on paper. It's like, okay, I feel terrible, but when I go to write it down, I only have like three or four things. I'm like okay, like that's, that's just temporary, and X, y, z. So my co-founder would be like all right, who's going to handle this, this and this? We'd sit in a room and be like all right, these are the terrible things happening right now. How are we going to handle this?
Speaker 2:Um, and that's why he pushed me to actually like this list came out of that um, creating the list of the terrible stuff we had to do and then handling it. And then this list. I have a date and it just runs Um. So I have this massive list of the last four years like the worst stuff and and so now when I put a new cease and desist letter on there or a new termination that went really like South or uh, lackluster performance as a company or a hard board meeting, I can like scroll down and be like, oh, I've crushed all of this. It's almost like an empowerment tool at this point. It's like a list of accolades, but bad ones For some reason. It's very therapeutic for me, in addition to just helping me tackle what's currently happening and reflecting on what we've already tackled, which makes what we're currently tackling seem minimal.
Speaker 1:Well, it sounds like it's a really nice mindfulness moment, just like get out of your head and down and like take it out of your head so you can examine it. But it is also quite a nice way of building up that resilience and going. So often when we've got through stuff we give the confidence to know we can get through it again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. Or a lot of times I'm like, oh, this isn't even nearly as bad as that, like it's, it's a mind trick, uh, to tell me I was like okay, um, I'll, I'll like rinse away the stress and anxiety that's coming with this, because it's just, I've had worse I've just got this image of you, like comparing your list with the founders going let's check, let's look at your list, I'll see.
Speaker 2:I'll see you your list and I'll raise you my list yeah, exactly, and as a founder, I I guess maybe I'll give two things here. I have three or four ceos that I talk to monthly and we almost do compare lists. It's like, oh look, I've got to do, I've got to let my xyz go and they're like, yeah, I did that three months ago and here's how right, like the lists are similar oftentimes and we can help each other. So I mean that's why ypo exists, that's why these groups exist. It's, it's very powerful to be talking to someone who's in the same like cohort of founder stage or even like before you, after you, um, it's very helpful to talk to different founders it sounds like you've done a very good job of putting that support system in place.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of like, you've got a coach, you've got a peer group, you're effectively journaling with your list um, how did? How did you sort of start down this road? Because a lot of founders feel very isolated a combination of those things.
Speaker 2:I think there's a couple of my investors who have said, like, do this, it's absolutely worth it. Executive coaches are more expensive than you think but at the end of the day, like if they can make you five to ten percent better, the impact that you're going to have on the value of your company is totally worth it. In addition, I will never found a company alone. A co-founder has to be there. It's almost like that support system built in and make sure it's the right person. That's a really important thing. And then I would say, over the support system of CEOs, I've had one CEO that I basically talked to the whole time, but then it's become more formalized in the past six to nine months, I would say, because it's a little scary to be like hey, do you want to set up a recurring meeting? Like our calendars are insane already, but do you want to set up a recurring meeting with like absolutely no reason other than to like talk about brutal stuff that we're handling, or good things, or wins, or how we can help each other?
Speaker 2:and everybody said yes, like no one said no, I guess I've I've waited till like the right times. I wouldn't ask, like a ceo who's a public company to do that, but, um, I think most people are nicer and more open and more willing to help, especially, uh, within the startup ecosystem so when I was a fan I had I was part of a group of 10 of us that was over five years, um, and I think it was probably.
Speaker 1:I mean you end up going to each other's weddings yeah, like it's. It's become so much more like you realise that you all struggle with the same stuff, you can all help with the same stuff, and actually that's the thing I valued most. When you're writing new stuff onto your I'm having a shit day list, someone else is writing stuff onto their I'm having an amazing day list and actually you almost get an endorphin rush for them on their behalf, which is quite nice, because, as founder, you don't get that endorphin rush every day.
Speaker 2:yeah, you say you get kicked in the balls on a fairly regular basis, so it's nice, the positive is due, and far between yeah, it feels yeah, much more painful. How did that those 10 individuals come about? Was that like a group that was organized through an organization?
Speaker 1:yeah, so it was a. I had a founder coach as well, and so he put together a group of uh 10 people from really different like industries, different sizes and everyone's roughly the same size and we had someone who was like much bigger and one person in the group who was smaller, but generally like eight were around the same size. It was really, really powerful and really combines well with having a coach as well, but they bring different, different elements totally agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you want to be a founder or you are a founder, there is no faster way to grow and learn and transform your life than to be a founder. I think, from a professional standpoint, there's no faster growth. There's probably no faster path for many of us to wealth either. So if you really want to supercharge your life, go, try and found a company or keep going, but also be respectful of the fact that you're going to get kicked in the balls or punched in the face every morning when you wake up.
Speaker 2:It's coming, but on the other side of it you'll have an incredible list of experiences, good and bad, and it's a wild ride.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining us on today's episode of Peer Effect with Colton Pace. Together we explored the transformative origin story of OwnWell and its mission to extend elite real estate tools to homeowners and investors. From Colton's initial insights into disparities in real estate management to the evolution of OwnWell into a profitable Series A company, Colton's journey is a testament to the power of innovation in traditional industries. His advice to swing bigger and take calculated risks underscores a fundamental truth in venture capital and startup growth, embracing risk for significant returns. Join us next week as we continue to explore the stories of founders and experts who are making it happen.
