Lewis Kemp is the founder and CEO of Lightbulb Media, a creative performance agency based in Manchester. They've generated over £100 million in revenue for brands across the UK, US and Europe. You might also know him for his fluff-free business and marketing advice, with some Northern humour thrown in!
In this episode, we delve into:
For further insights and inspiration, follow Lewis on LinkedIn and see how Lightbulb Media is making waves in the marketing world with its innovative strategies and real results.
More from James:
Connect with James on LinkedIn or at peer-effect.com
Lewis Kemp is the founder and CEO of Lightbulb Media, a creative performance agency based in Manchester. They've generated over £100 million in revenue for brands across the UK, US and Europe. You might also know him for his fluff-free business and marketing advice, with some Northern humour thrown in!
In this episode, we delve into:
For further insights and inspiration, follow Lewis on LinkedIn and see how Lightbulb Media is making waves in the marketing world with its innovative strategies and real results.
More from James:
Connect with James on LinkedIn or at peer-effect.com
Welcome to Peer Effect, the podcast that fuels you with new ideas and inspiration through interviews with founders and experts who've made it happen. I'm your host, james Johnson, and I coach Series A Plus founders to take back control so they can take their business further and live a great life. Today, we're exploring a question that really any entrepreneur should be asking themselves, and that is how can I stand out and cut through the noise in a crowded market? Joining us is Lewis Kemp, founder and CEO of Lightbulb Media, a creative performance agency based in Manchester. They've generated over 100 million in revenue for businesses across the UK, us and Europe, showcasing their bold, no-fluff approach to marketing. Let's get started showcasing their bold, no-fluff approach to marketing.
Speaker 2:Let's get started. Marketing agencies aren't exactly rare. You know, if you throw a stone in any direction in Manchester or any major city, you're going to probably hit a hundred of them, and I think a lot of people are kind of misguided to think that being really, really good at something is enough. But ultimately it's not, because you only get the chance to show how good you are if you know how to leverage attention. So I think the only real thing that you've got that is unique. If you don't have a unique service offering, ie marketing is going to be yourself. So I think you've got to kind of lean into your own quirks and personalities if you actually do want to stand out in saturated markets. Um, it's all good to say, oh, oh, well, these guys are doing that, so we're going to be trying to do what they do, but ultimately, if you do that, you're always going to be second best, so it's much better, as cheesy as it sounds, to be the first you rather than the second or third competitor.
Speaker 2:I spent a lot of time in other agencies where I wanted to say things or I had a certain way of wanting to do things, and they were saying things to me that I didn't believe would work. And then the data showed that it didn't work. So ultimately I thought, well, if I'm going to give it the big one here, I probably better step out by myself and actually see if this does work. And I was still nervous at the start, thinking, oh, this is kind of how LinkedIn works, for instance, you've got to say this and use certain words and kind of share the latest company blog posts and ultimately I just go off data as a marketer. It wasn't getting any engagement, it wasn't getting any leads and ultimately I didn't even enjoy it. So I thought what's the worst that can happen by me coming on? Worst case, I still don't get any leads, but at least I enjoy it and I have fun.
Speaker 1:But yeah, luckily, like, the leads started coming pretty pretty soon after that, and it's interesting how much of our time we spend in that low enjoyment just because we feel like we ought to. We just gravitate towards it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, ultimately, being a founder, you've already got enough of that stuff. That's going to be low enjoyment, so you might as well have the fun way you can find it, because there's going to be a lot of shit that you have to do every day that you don't like. So at least try and angle some kind of enjoyment and fun parts into it. And it's not going to be fun all the time. Sometimes it is a bit of a chore, but ultimately, if you can find something that you do get some spark of enjoyment from, it will compound. Ultimately it doesn't feel like a habit or something that you have to do. Eventually you actually start enjoying it and actually wanting to do it instead to take you away from doldrums of doing your finances or accounts or tax returns, if you're like me. Um, I mean, ultimately I think there's got to be some form of strategy behind it.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't think anyone that says be 100% authentic online is that way, because ultimately, we are on there usually to generate business. I personally just use that side of my personality because that's what I need to use to basically get eyeballs to stand out amongst everyone else that's doing the same thing. So you've got to lean into, kind of where your strengths are with it. So if you know that you're a really good talker, for instance, and you'd rather get people on a phone call or on a Zoom and do it face-to-face, then that's the kind of stuff where you should direct people. You know, put out the teasers and offer like free introductory calls or put yourself out there where you share the risk to say, actually jump on for 15 minutes and then, if you back yourself and you know that that's where you shine, don't try and sell yourself massively in the copy. If you're not a really strong copywriter, just try and get people on the call in whatever which way you can. Um, there's obviously some rules around, just not being a general dick, um, needlessly. Everyone's got morals ultimately. Um.
Speaker 2:But then it's certain things that I particularly enjoy, kind of like prodding the, the people that are just a little bit stiff and that haven't caught up to the way society or social media works anymore. But that's just fun. That's just a bit of fun for me and it does kind of disqualify the people that we don't want as well. A lot of people overlook that the disqualification part, and they'll get on all these calls and then, 45 minutes later and a seven pound starbucks later, they'll realize that this person is not a fit. I would rather save myself the time on the front end and really kind of put off any people that are going to be kind of micro managers, red flags, late payers, things like that, by taking that content and putting it real top funnel to say actually don't even bother coming here, because if you do that, then this is what will, this is what will happen and this is what you can expect. So it might seem harsh, but there is some, some strategy behind it, at least slightly.
Speaker 1:I like to tell myself that anyway so what's what's uh external insight you've come across recently?
Speaker 2:uh, who's it by and why it's interesting to you so one of the best books for me when people ask me about kind of marketing in general is called the choice factory by richard shotten. Uh, really, really good book, easily digestible, and it kind of goes through all the ways and means and kind of data-backed experiments around how to make people do the things you want them to do, or why people make certain decisions, and ultimately marketing at its core is manipulation, which sounds very, very bad and I don't know where it's got this negative connotation from, because it just comes from the etymology of to move with the hand, which is essentially what you're doing. The best marketers are essentially psychologists. They understand the human mind, they understand what stage of the journey people are at and they tailor information to basically push them along that journey and give them what they need at the right time that they need it. So if anyone's not read that, I would say it's definitely definitely worth doing from a marketing standpoint.
Speaker 2:There's so many misnomers around words in general, because obviously as a copywriter I love that and actually if you see things like the term military grade, people think that means indestructible. It doesn't. It means the cheapest product that will get the job done. That's what military grade is, but for some reason there's a connotation that it's amazing and then similar with like fat free emblazoned on the front. Ok, great, but that just means it's loaded with sugar, or if it's sugar free, it's loaded with fat.
Speaker 2:So you can use basically these kind of like key trigger points to pull people in. People are doing it now with they're just hammering protein on everything and this could literally just be the worst thing for you in the world covered in e-numbers. But if it says protein on the front, I'm buying it, because protein equals healthy in my head. So the smart brands are just getting on top of that now and you're seeing protein cereals coming out and things like that. It's the trigger point for people that they want the easy solution and they're not going to do the digging themselves. So if I just plaster something on that you think is what you want, I'm going to sell it I wonder that applies to coaching I I wonder if I should be saying like protein coaching, protein coaching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, military grade protein coaching essentials package, that's the one. Gold standard, premium, platinum, celeb, that's the package name now.
Speaker 1:I can see how you helped your clients get past 100 million revenue increase now.
Speaker 2:Honestly, it's only the ones that listen to us. Sometimes they get a bit of kickback, but we're like look, this is psychology, this is based off data. It's not about what you like or what I like, because ultimately, that doesn't equate to what your customer likes, and that is the only thing that we care about at the end of the day. So, yeah, put it out there, get the data back and then make decisions based off facts rather than hopes and dreams, which are very much not a a profitable strategy.
Speaker 1:It's interesting that I think, as a founder, how to step away from your own opinion.
Speaker 2:It is so hard. It's the hardest thing in the world because it is your baby, ultimately, and it's something you have to train yourself to do, because you do have to control everything. But ultimately you've got to be self-aware enough to know what isn't your strength. And we have literally been in that situation before where somebody wanted it a certain way and we showed them the split test where the other way worked well and they still chose and they said no, no, we want it this way. And I was like, well, we can't help people like that. If you want to build a business for you, have at it, but we won't be involved in it because we build it to make money and do it for your customers.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I would say probably like 90 of the time we have trouble with any business, it's because the founder can't get out of their own way. Um, you know, they want to control things that they don't really understand. Or they're looking at data and they don't really understand what that data means, or they're coming to a different conclusion from it and ultimately, they put in personal preference over efficiency. Um, I have no inclination to go with emotion. I just go with what actually works. I don't care if you absolutely hate it, if it's getting you a 10x or, you know, 100k revenue a month, that's what we're going to do, whether you like it or not, because that's what your customers want. And if you don't know what your customers want, it's not going to be a very, very good business.
Speaker 1:So you're not going to be around for very long what would if let's say so what if there's a values check? So let's say you had two sets of data like one? One is very clearly leading to a better result, but is but is arguably against the values criteria of the business.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have this question. This phrase just irks me now to this day. It's not on brand. Let me tell you, first and foremost, you are not a brand. You are a small business with a set of brand guidelines. You are not McDonald's Number two. You know what should be on brand for everyone Making sales and if you've know what should be on brand for everyone Making sales, and if you've had this brand and these brand guidelines and you've been pushing it out for six, nine, 12 months and nothing's changed, let me tell you your brand's an issue and you need to change something.
Speaker 2:So you can cling on to these guidelines just because you paid a freelancer on five or 3K for them five years ago. But we are showing you, we've put it out to your customers and say do you like this or this? And we've chosen this, and if you really want to go with that, we can't help you. So I think let your customers tell you what your brand is, first and foremost, and then build on those foundations, because before, if you're doing that and you're saying that to us before you've even started, you are basing that on hopes and dreams. You're coming to us and saying this will definitely work. Okay, let's try it. I would say four out of five customers come to us and say I know exactly my target market is and it's not right. So we need to be be led by the data. Any, any projection or anything that's based on brand without putting stuff out there. Whilst it is going to be based on research, it's not actually based on hard data of putting stuff out daily and seeing what comes back as a direct response. So for me, I think, yeah, flip it on its head, put it out there. You can have some ideas, but be fluid with them, because demographics change, platforms change. Just the way people operate changes all the time. If you're not changing with it, you better believe there's 20 other people coming into the market trying to take that market share and if you're not moving fast enough, they'll get it like we.
Speaker 2:We can do an assumption for a split test, but we're not just going to run with that one assumption and we have it all the time where they want to run the nicely stylized ads over here and we say let's just make an ugly ad, let's just get a person unboxing it and saying how amazing it is, and then this one, you know, quadruple, quadruple the performance of the other one. And then it's hard to kind of kill your darlings because you're like oh, we spent so much on this brand photo shoot and things like that. Well, why did you do that? Why don't you just have your assumption, get a micro set of content, put it out there, see what the response is, and then double down on the things that work. Put it out there, see if people actually want the thing first, and then build on top of those foundations.
Speaker 2:When you've found that first-time feedback of this is who bought it? This is why they said they bought it. This is who didn't buy it. This is why they didn't buy it and then build from there. So, yeah, just get to it. I think a lot of people just spin the wheels and, oh, we're going to go for another funding round, just launch the thing, or you're never going to know.
Speaker 2:It's pretty wild when we say to people like, have you spoken to your customers yet?
Speaker 2:Like, have you asked them why?
Speaker 2:Why they bought it? Have you got any feedback on what they liked about the website? And they're like, oh no, hold on, it's your biggest source of information is an open field. Tell us what you liked or what you didn't like about this today or why you bought in a post purchase survey, what was it that you liked the best? Or was it the website experience? Was the brand who referred you?
Speaker 2:There's so much information you can gather from like this first party data that is so overlooked, and I don't know if it's a fear thing or whatever, but I personally love it, like if I bought something the other week and then, you know, the founder reached out and said oh hi, just just checking in.
Speaker 2:I'd really appreciate some feedback on what you like.
Speaker 2:Like, that personal touch of that is amazing because it makes me feel like my feedback's being listened to and that's going to kind of influence the brand that I like and it makes me an unconscious advocate of them, because they actually give a shit and a lot of brands these days are just churning out stuff, drop shit, whatever, get it, and there's no real feeling. The ones that are really winning at the moment the brands with community. They're building a community behind them and at the start that's tough but as it gets bigger and bigger it starts running itself because you get self-appointed advocates that will then go out and become unofficial bdms for you and bring new people in and say have you seen this, have you seen that? And the social proof on that is just kind of incremental. But it's spending the time in those early stages to create those raving fans. And the only way you do that is if you actually reach out to those people and make them feel included in the whole thing, rather than, you know, you're just so separated and far away.
Speaker 1:If you involve them in it, they'll be the best salesman you've got what's a life hack or tip that you would share with other founders on making things happen?
Speaker 2:to actually get stuff done. It's more around the personal side of things. I have been guilty of this. It's kind of a mistake that I have made. I was basically overstretching all the time, trying to be in all the places all of the time, super responsive to everything, and now I treat myself like I would treat a client. So if I'm going in to the gym, it's in the calendar. If I'm having lunch I know this is wild, but that's in the calendar as well. So whilst the calendar might look overwhelming, now it's a clearly structured day. I don't know if this is the autism thing that just helps me go in from one thing to one thing to the other. Because when I was made out of magic in my early 20s, I could do that and you could push yourself and you could last off six hours sleep and you could work weekends and you could skip a few meals. And now, if I don't get eight hours sleep, not only am I a horrible person to be around, I've noticed my performance dip massively around. I've noticed my performance dip massively.
Speaker 2:And when you're in a creative industry, if you get brain fog, like every day, you've got to think of new creative ideas. You've got to think of cool copy to put out, and you've got to do that across. You know 15, 20 different brands and industries, so you're constantly putting hats on all the time. So I think if you're not giving yourself the time to actually be creative, if you're constantly doing, doing, doing and you're not giving yourself the time to actually be creative, if you're constantly doing, doing, doing and you're not taking time to actually just breathe, observe, listen to the news, read the paper, see the other things that are going to spark this interest, I think you're going to get to that stage where your work suffers for it. So I would say pull back. You don't have to be everywhere all the time and available 24-7 for everyone. Creative and strategy as a whole is so overlooked.
Speaker 2:Sometimes when we say to people okay, so this is going to be like a creative brainstorm time, people will look at you like I'm not paying for ideas, what are you talking about? When was the last time you had one? Of course the ideas matter. The execution matters, don't get me wrong. But great execution of a shit idea still leads to nothing. You need to have the meat of a good idea and a lot of these ideas. Yeah, nine of them might be terrible, but that one of them might be the one that, completely you know, skyrockets your ads or transforms your website. So if you're not giving yourself time to do that, and if you work in marketing, you're not factoring that into what you're doing as far as a process and you just go oh, we'll just get straight to the doing. No, stop, breathe, think, assess, because that's going to be the game changer for you. So for me, yeah, my tip is basically treat, treat yourself like a client, book it in, don't cancel it and just follow, follow it through like that.
Speaker 1:I think we are very bad bosses to ourselves. We treat ourselves like some sort of 80s power boss and like suspenders and kind of, yeah, do more, you're lazy.
Speaker 2:Such a good point actually. Yeah, you think you've got all the answers, because I did when I was in my early mid-20s and you think it can go on forever, but it'll catch you up and it'll kick you in the balls. It's much better sometimes to go backwards, to come forwards that whole kind of bow and arrow allegory of what progress looks like. So, yeah, don't be afraid of actually just switching off for a little bit. You usually find when you do come back, your creative mind is just much more free flowing. I used to think I couldn't go on holiday and have to take my laptop with me all the time because the world might end. And now I can quite happily switch off and say right, I know, I know, nothing urgent is going to set on fire. Nothing's going to go wrong within within this week. Nothing is as big of a deal as you tell yourself in your head that it is. It's going to be all right.
Speaker 2:So give yourself a little bit of space. You know you've got to be honest with people. I know it's hard if you're desperate for money in the early stages and you just need the clients. We've all been there, we've all been undercharging, we've all taken on red flag clients when we knew we shouldn't have really deep down. The sooner you can get out of that kind of toxic cycle of it, the better, because I can't tell you now that the difference it makes getting rid of one toxic client and then another one comes in who's a dream and you're like god, why didn't we do this before? What, what on earth were we doing, driving ourselves into the ground for that, I mean, it's not going to be fun in the early days. But ultimately set your standards and stick to them as soon as you can afford to financially, emotionally, whatever it may be for you.
Speaker 2:Everyone asks me about what a five-year, ten-year plan is and I'm like no, everything changes too fast in this game. So I plan in like a three-month sprint, as like not too much can happen in a three-month sprint, but in marketing it kind of does. But looking back year on year, now most people are living the dream that they said they wanted three years ago, but the appreciation isn't there because they're always focusing on forwards, which I respect and I appreciate. But there also needs to be some appreciation of where you were last year, because you'd kill to be in the spot you are today and then the year before that, when you were literally on the balls of your ass trying to desperately get a client. Look at you now.
Speaker 2:So ultimately, yeah, from a motivation point of view, it's good to look both ways. I'd say, before crossing the road, you can look forwards, but then look the other way as well, because there's usually some good stuff in there, particularly for when you're having like a down day and you go. Actually, no, two years ago I thought I was going to give up and now you know we've got 20 clients in six countries and doing whatever it is for whatever industry you're doing, I guarantee you you're a hell of a lot further along 12 months down the line just doesn't feel like it when you're in it, but when you look back 12 months ago big growth but everything's that's celebrating the journey.
Speaker 1:It's like partial successes, like not setting those like crazily big. Oh, it's only success if, where, if is a number that we know moves anyway, like it starts off being I'll be really happy when I've got 10 clients. You get 10 clients like 20 clients, and it goes from like one country to three countries and like that number always creeps. But you can notice a destination you can never reach.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Ultimately, a lot of people think that that's where happiness lies within certain revenue figures or headcounts or office sizes or cars or whatever. Ultimately, you bang on, it is always going to move revenue figures or headcounts or office sizes or cars or whatever but ultimately you bang on, it is always going to move and the sooner you realize that and focus on what you actually want, a lot of people could have a very, very healthy business with 10 to 20 really good clients and yet they put themselves out there and try and appeal to millions and actually all you need is 10 or 20 cool clients, no matter what it is that you sell. You've probably got a really cool business. So focus on, focus on those, because if you're constantly trying to dance around and please everyone and hit all these markets and scale, scale, scale or, you know, get funding for this, it's just so exhausting, honestly. Um, but if you want to do it, like you say, have a run at it, but only do it if you genuinely want to do it. You know, don't do it because social media told you to do it and that that's what is deemed as successful, because it's not.
Speaker 2:A lot of people are getting their important information about society and the economy from tiktok and reels these days and let me tell you, 95 of those are absolute bollocks. So you're going to be. You're basically setting yourself up for failure and disappointment. Just speak to real people that have done it. It won't be as pretty as the TikTok says it would be, but it will be honest. There's a whole kind of world on social media where you get sucked into this positivity bubble of you know, believe it and you'll achieve it. No, get up off your ass and actually do the fucking work and then you'll achieve it.
Speaker 2:But these people are just selling hope. Hope's the biggest, it's the biggest market of all. Hope and then drugs. Everyone will buy hope. Everyone wants to be slimmer and healthier and wealthier and happier. But just be careful of the people that are actually selling it and go. Have you actually done this before? Or are you only making your money from selling me the dream and the promise that you've actually made it doing this that you're selling to me? Because the answer is usually no, and that's how the kind of pyramid schemes start of your girl bosses and your pro hustle culture, kind of people that sucker in the young, the young people who think it's perfectly normal to be on 10k months at 17 and if you're not, you're a failure. Just chill out. Chill out. The people that make it at that age are microscopic. I wasn't one of them and nobody I know was so. Enjoy it. Learn from people. Speak to people that have been there. Speak to people two steps ahead people ten steps ahead and speak to people at the same level as you and you'll get a good basis of kind of what the real advice should be to set your expectations of life so. Otherwise you're going to end up disappointed and unhappy.
Speaker 2:I'm a big advocate of personal responsibility and accountability. Like we could all vilify social media as the devil, but you're in charge of your feeds. If you get people in there that make you feel worse or aren't positive or that make you feel bad or that you're not doing enough, there's a fine balance between someone who's motivating and someone who's demotivating, someone's like all two steps ahead, oh well, I get there and they're very helpful with it, but ultimately people are saying look, you're a piece of shit if you're not a millionaire by 21, and you don't have a Bugatti. Like it's just not reality, is it? You are setting yourself up. This is why there's so many mental health issues now, why the mental fragility levels are just so high? Because people have been promised a dream of what the world is really like, and it is very, very much not like that. It's not a nice place, full of barley trips and only doing what sets your soul on fire. And you know what? If you don't believe it, go and start your own business and that'll. That'll teach you the best lessons of all. You'll learn more in six months of doing that than you will whinging about how the world's out to get you.
Speaker 2:That's the paradox of kind of marketing as well, because ultimately, everything that we're selling realistically is down to because we make you feel insecure about something. You need your computers to work faster, you want your skin to look clearer, you want your arms to look bigger. Everything is insecurity to some level, but it's just a case of how nefarious you are with that, because ultimately, as marketers, that's what we do. We sell insecurity and we sell hope, and we sell the version a, which you are, and the version b, which you want to be, and then we put information in front of you to encourage you to buy that product or service that will get you from a to b, so, but that's in the same way.
Speaker 2:I still believe there's an ethical way. Like you know, I wouldn't take money off people to basically sell them on pipe dream um, and create generations of people that are going to be disappointed and depressed and anxious and things like that. I'd rather just be honest and people will say, oh, you're a cynic, okay, do do the way you think life works. Come back in five years and then let's have another chat and let's see if you still rosy-eyed on it, because I'm not being a cynic, I'm being a realist.
Speaker 2:Been around long enough now and been done over enough times and spoken to enough people and had enough experience to know. But you can only say these things so much. I didn't listen when I was young of all the lessons that I sleepwalked into and felt the pain financial, emotional, physical, all that that goes with it. So if people want to take it, they can. If they don't, and they want to keep on believing the dream for a little while until it hits them in the face, either way is good, but don't say I didn't say so, because I'm a petty man and I will say, yeah, I did say that, didn't I?
Speaker 1:Wrapping up today's chat with Lewis Kemp, it's clear that authenticity isn't just a buzzword but a strategic asset. In cutting through the noise, Lewis proves that throwing out the corporate mask and leveraging a genuine personality can truly amplify your business's impact and reach, as well as connect you with clients who are aligned with your vision. Thanks for tuning in to Peer Effect. Remember to subscribe and join me next week Wednesday for another episode full of real-life insights and practical tips to help you back on track and in control of your business and personal life. Until next time, cheers.