Failing and Succeeding as a Team with Christoffer Sigshoj of KiteX.tech

Christoffer is the Co-Founder of KiteX.tech, the first truly affordable wind turbines for off-grid housing & rural homes. KiteX.tech has recently done a successful Kickstarter campaign and is about to do their product launch.

In March 2020, Christoffer was navigating a challenging time. He and his co-founder Andreas were about to close down their business.

He sat down with Andreas and the team, they discussed the closing down situation and ended up brainstorming.

This led them to shift their vision, take their failures and turn them into lessons.

The potential of their game-changing wind turbine technology inspired the team to continue their work, even in times of uncertainty. 

In this episode, Chris shares the importance of taking small steps and having the right people around you to create a sustainable business. 

In today’s episode, we also talk about:

• The idea of failing and succeeding as a team
• Focusing on the internal goals rather than the outside pressure
• The importance of choosing the right investors

Today’s podcast is a lesson, in which we learn that after a major setback, Chris and his team turned their crisis into an opportunity, channelling their passion for technology and prototyping into creating a game-changing wind turbine. 

This isn’t just about technology—it’s about strategic growth and the importance of surrounding yourself with the right people. 

More from James:

Connect with James on LinkedIn or at peer-effect.com

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Andreas went a few months without salary completely, which in itself is, as a leader, very really inspiring when you believe that much in your own project that you are willing to invest all capital time into that. Often it's not a single person's failure to do something wrong and you're always working together as a team. We have not taken in investors that we didn't like or didn't feel like. Communication was good.

Speaker 2: 0:39

So I'm delighted to welcome Chris to the show today. He's the co-founder of KiteX. They've just successfully done a kickstarter round and have better do product launch. Welcome, chris.

Speaker 1: 0:52

Thanks, james, thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 0:55

Oh, my pleasure. So things are looking good today and promising, but we're going to go back to a different moment in time. When are we going back?

Speaker 1: 1:03

to. So we are going back to March 2020 as COVID hit and we did a major pivot in KiteX, sort of a transition moment in our company history.

Speaker 2: 1:19

So, if we jump back at this moment, where were you? How really stands out for you as a key moment at this time?

Speaker 1: 1:27

So I think I mean at KiteX we were doing some. We used to do flying wind turbines and we were actually quite good at it, I would say, and we had some success, but we needed a lot more funding to get to the next level. And then Google actually closed down a major effort that they have been pursuing in this space of flying wind turbines, and that was quite a hit, I would say. So we were sitting in the office spaces and sitting around and saying, well, how should we make this funding? Can we make it happen? Can we pursue the dream for this, or what should we do about it?

Speaker 1: 2:17

And then there is this pivotal moment that stands really clear in my memory, when we were sitting at Andreas's house and Andreas, he is the founder and the CEO, my business partner here in KiteX, and we were some of the team and we were sitting there and having a discussion on what to do, and he had sort of already recently, I think it was the day before something said we cannot pursue this anymore, and now we need to figure out what is the next step for KiteX, what is the next step for me? I mean that was Andreas saying that, and I mean everybody was seeing this.

Speaker 2: 3:00

So you kind of the market was taking a hit through Google pulling out of it. You've got this moment of where your founder has said, ok, well, we're not following this path anymore. And you're sitting down with the whole team and going what now? What now is a business and what now individually? Is that right?

Speaker 1: 3:22

Yeah, exactly, and it was sort of a transition to say preparing us for we're going to lay everybody off, everybody will. We will have this month and maybe I can't remember if we had one more month and then we sort of see. But what should we do now? There was still a little bit of cash to sort of round up a few things and we had some infrastructure that needed closing down on all of this. But then Andreas had this thing in his head, which was take all the learnings that we did here from the flying wind turbines and can we make something from the learnings here and actually bring that to market in a time span where we can get the cash? And we have a little bit of cash so we can still get something to eat and pay our rent? And that was sort of the thing.

Speaker 1: 4:17

We were sitting at Andreas' house in the back to this moment again and actually brainstorming a little bit on this. So can we make a wind turbine that is 10 kilos and one kilo, what is still one of the lightest wind turbines in the world, and what markets can we hit with this? I mean, can anybody want such a small wind turbine and is it even possible to do it. So we were sitting there a little bit brainstorming on ideas and looking into not really looking into, but just brainstorming on the potential. Could this be for military users in camps? Can they use it in the fields? Can they use this in refugee camps? Would that be a viable market? Or is it for homeowners who who would like to just have a little bit of energy? And and back in 2020 there was still this energy crisis going on and sustainability now it's even more in focus.

Speaker 2: 5:11

So it's just getting more and more relevant and getting clean renewable power and yeah and so, just just for context, the people who are sitting in this room with you at this stage, they're aware that it's it's unlikely that they will be part of this future journey because the money's not there. Is that right?

Speaker 1: 5:29

yeah, that's that's. I would say that's, that's correct. And I was also very much in doubt about it. If, if I wanted to do it, it was still a fun sort of a activity to to look at some something else than just talking about how we we didn't make it with these drones and we were. I mean, the spirit is spirit and it's always been.

Speaker 1: 5:48

We are a very R&D. I can see heavy, heavy company right, we are making technology and pushing things and building prototypes and just tinkering around and that's what we are really good at. And making this software, hardware and meat, sort of say, make electronics, wind turbines, we are good with drones and yeah, so, so that's, that's sort of the, that's sort of the thing. And could we? Could we do something? That was sort of the thing and we were also watching.

Speaker 1: 6:21

So just to get back to the Google thing, they actually pushed out a video about their whole project, the open source, the whole thing, patterns, everything, to sort of say here's everything that we learned. If there's still a few companies in the in the flying wind turbine space. So here's everything we learned, take with it what you do with it what you want. Now it's free to you. And then in my mind, super cool documentary which is, I think, an hour and almost two hours long, and we were sitting there watching that and just getting inspired, I would say so it's a really nice approach because when this is a moment that could be quite sad and it's quite sad, it's kind of the end of this particular journey.

Speaker 2: 7:06

Yeah, but it's just quite quite nice that you, how you approach that this watch documentary together uses a brainstorming thing. Look at what, almost like what are the learnings we can take from this, more than any sort of who did what wrong approach?

Speaker 1: 7:24

yeah, exactly so. So that was, that was really the spirit, I would say at that point. And we are still trying to to do this as the spirit, because often it's not a single person's failure to do something wrong. Right, you're always working together as a team, and I don't know if you you've heard that saying, but I mean, if you point a finger, right, then if you fold your hand and three fingers fingers are pointing back at you, so so that's really another useful thing to do in that sense. So it is more like can we, can we do something? And how does everybody move on from here as the best as they can?

Speaker 1: 8:00

And then Andreas convinced me to to sort of stick around still for a little while and and then we, we set out, we still I mean, we were with the team was still there for a few months after one, two months, something like that. Covid hit, shot down a lot right, homework and and things like that. I was actually only home working one day, but the office space was completely empty. So I was sort of working alone, still isolated, as Covid hit, because I was going and printing prototypes and our 3d print farm and and doing all of that how did this feel?

Speaker 2: 8:37

at this stage where you're kind of looking for the next, the next solution, instead, like you weren't sure whether you were going to be there or not, what was it that sort of really reconnected you back to this new path? I?

Speaker 1: 8:52

think it was. I was yeah, that's a good, that's a good question. I think I was really inspired by Andreas's optimism. I'm an engineer, andreas is an engineer too, and engineers, we are often a little bit pessimistic and can we actually? Can we actually do this with the resources that we have as possible? And but he was he. He was quite convincing and and sort of set a roadmap. He had, he had some ideas in mind. That's why he, I guess, invited us over and and wanted to hear our opinion on the whole, on the whole project that he, I mean he wanted to venture into.

Speaker 1: 9:34

And I think that in itself was quite inspiring.

Speaker 1: 9:38

And then just having a I mean in that sense, a brilliant colleagues that I know can build stuff quickly, can, can, can do all of this, yeah, that that is sort of for me.

Speaker 1: 9:50

That led to sort of the next step of just saying, yes, I can go along with this for a minimum salary and let's see if we can do this for six months where we are at then and and we we had cash for I think it was six to eight months or something like that with minimal salaries still needed to buy a little bit of hardware for prototypes and stuff like this. Just me and Andreas and some of the other guys. They wanted a little bit more salary, so Andreas went a few months without salary completely, which in itself is, as a leader, very, really inspiring. When, when you believe that much in your own project, that you are willing to invest all capital time into that, yeah, then that really, really pushes the, the motivation for everybody to say that we all need the same boat here, right? Not somebody milking the company for the money and saying, ah, I'm more experienced, I need more cash, we're just really believing in the project. That shows that.

Speaker 2: 10:56

And was the mission of the company. Has that remained the same? The product seems like it's changed, but has the mission remained the same?

Speaker 1: 11:04

Yeah, so the mission and the inspiration that we are into. I mean I grew up my parents they built a house from second hand recycled materials and sustainability has always been a really big part of my life, and I know for Andreas as well. So the mission is to bring I mean we all, we all is to bring sustainable, clean energy in a cheaper way to people. We prosper by having cheap energy available. Right, the energy demand just rises and rises and rises, and we need to solve the climate issue that we are facing just using fossil fuels. And if it's nuclear or if it's wind or if it's something else, then that's, in my mind, that doesn't really matter. We need all what we can get right. So that's the mission. I would say yeah, and then I think just to interrupt you here, but I think the wind is always, I mean, been fascinating. I mean I'm always fascinated by it. Both me and Andreas are kite surfers and that's also where a lot of inspiration comes from flying around in the air, right.

Speaker 2: 12:18

Yeah, I think, I think it almost feels like the mission takes precedence over personal well-being.

Speaker 1: 12:26

Yeah For.

Speaker 2: 12:27

the team, the mission interest is, so it's such a sort of a high level mission.

Speaker 1: 12:33

Yes, it is. It is definitely a high level mission. So you have to ask my girlfriend about that, I think yes, and how she feels about it. She's also very much into sustainability. So things it's okay, but definitely it does. I mean it's not that we are not doing it, at least not from a personal level and the vision of getting rich, and it's, I would say, in the order. It's because it's super fun doing what we are doing. It's super engaging, just being so close to a product that you're building yourself, driving your own company, getting the responsibility for it and seeing it through. And then, of course, it's the greater mission that we can actually make an impact in the world.

Speaker 1: 13:21

What we are doing now, our small wind turbine that is not going to have a very I mean that's not in that sense I think that's going to save the world. But our next sizes of turbines they are. I mean we are looking at when we are sitting and calculating numbers and not being super optimists but maybe not also also giving ourselves a good credit. And we are seeing that I mean potentially we can make. We can make power 20 times cleaner than current wind turbines, and wind turbines is some of the cleanest power that we're seeing just because we're using so much less materials. A big wind turbine, you need concrete foundations, large steel tubes and structures, and we are just using these strings to hold all the forces, and that means we're only using around 10% of the material consumption. And then when it's lighter, it's cheaper to install it, that requires less heavy machinery, and then we just go down the line. So all those numbers really add up.

Speaker 2: 14:31

With this potential, with this mission and with this potentially game changing solution, does that add more pressure onto your shoulders? Do you feel like there's more pressure on your shoulders to get it?

Speaker 1: 14:43

right. No, I don't, I don't. I don't feel pressured from the outside. In that sense I say I'm more invested into the people on the team to make it work. Actually, if we fail, then then we've then we failed, then probably we have learned a lot.

Speaker 1: 15:06

And I don't I mean I don't hope it's going to be due to bad execution or we didn't have the time for it, because I'm sure we can, we can execute right.

Speaker 1: 15:17

I mean, we have really good advisors, we have good networks that we are counting on and stuff like this and and that's I think that's an important thing to have as an entrepreneur people looking at you from the outside and criticizing you in, in, and saying why not this? And then you have dialogues about it and just generally talking about your product roadmap, your mission, your strategy, and everybody seems to be, I would say I mean there's a general positivity around the whole thing which is very, very motivating. And then if we fail, it's possibly due to something else. Maybe we have overseen something, I mean, maybe we have completely missed something, and then it means it's not possible, but I would say it's getting more and more or it's getting less and less likely at this point, right, because we are locking many hours at this moment and producing still a lot of electricity and our test sites and all of this.

Speaker 2: 16:24

It's just yeah, it feels like you've been going. You and Andreas have been going down this path with the wooden power for quite a while. It was a very clear mission. You've got a product which you are testing and is delivering, and you can see that it really is a game-changing solution. I suppose with that there's less experience on the business side for you guys. Yeah, of course. And so I'm wondering if you feel pressure not on the technology and the product side, but on the execution around making it work as a business.

Speaker 1: 17:03

Yeah, that's a really good question, I think, and something that we have been talking a lot about at the moment. So, again, this outside pressure, we try not to let it run, I would say, in the company. And I think we have said maybe I mean in some people's mind it would be maybe a strategy that is too conservative and potentially scaling quick enough and maybe we will realize this in a few years and say why didn't we just go more aggressive to it? But at this moment in time we are just taking small, I would say small baby steps, almost right, we will do a few customers, then we will see are they happy, can we push on? And then we make small increments in production and everything. We are keeping it very close to ourselves at the moment and not investing heavily in moles or all of this. This year we will make maybe 150 to 200 turbines. Next year we will maybe hitting a number of 500 of these small turbines and just the first prototype of the next size turbine. So we are taking it quite slow.

Speaker 1: 18:16

When you look at where wind turbines I mean, they are 50 years in development now and they are huge and we are not trying to compete with them, I mean for energy production. They are filling out a whole nother thing. We have found this niche where that we are going to target. So targeting this niche for us, I think that gives a lot of focus because you know what you are targeting and you know that you are not necessarily needing to hit gigantic volumes and maybe just the whole thing of having gigantic volumes that can really quickly go down. I mean, go south on a company, right, if you have to recall a lot of turbines. So if we need to recall 20 turbines, then that's fine, but if we have so 20,000, then we need to recall 2,000 of those, then it might be a huge problem for us, right? Just because of the capital when selling a hardware, that is, the capital requirements for dealing with physical products. That's huge.

Speaker 2: 19:25

Do you feel any conflict between, let's say, the impact that you can have if you scale faster, like if your products are more places, more people are saving energy. We're helping the environment quicker.

Speaker 1: 19:39

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:39

Sustainability is a business going. Actually, if we try and push too hard, we put ourselves at risk. We might not be here in three years' time. Yeah, like it's less sustainable. Is that something that you feel?

Speaker 1: 19:50

Yeah, I think sometimes a little bit it could be something I mean we should get to market as quickly as possible. But then you always I mean this engineer brain said oh, just step back and do it a little more quietly and let's go for the one step forward and then the next step, and then the next step, and then the next step, having this roadmap laid out and it's not like it's a specific roadmap that we set out to do on this day back in Andreas' house. Of course it's always changing, we are talking about it a lot, we are evaluating and saying what's the next step? Right, we always learn and we always get smarter. So you have to wriggle it. But the overall idea and this I mean just this general approach of going easy, small steps at a time, that's how you learn to run right, you start by crawling and then you take one step and then you stumble a little bit, but before you look back, then you are I mean, you are running.

Speaker 2: 20:53

So I suppose having the right people around you is important here to sort of encourage that attitude in that process, as opposed to getting people trying to push you into growing too fast.

Speaker 1: 21:07

Yeah, I think and that's always a thing you would have from investors right, let's just push this, let's get going and see how quickly we can scale it. And I think we are good and especially Andreas, it's good at having this larger vision and actually convincing investors. We have not taken in investors that we didn't like or didn't feel like a communication was good. So I think it's key to have your sort of lead investors and the backers that you have. I mean you communicate openly and honestly with them, saying, I mean, we are almost always when we have meetings, we are always working on problems and then we try to find solutions. And do you know somebody in your network that knows about this thing? And then suddenly, I mean you know a guy who knows a guy, and then you get help from the outside, do a coffee with them and yeah, before you know it, you have solved your problem and you've gotten help from the outside almost I mean, often for free. So that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 22:12

So it sounds like almost trying to build a sustainable business model as well as a sustainable business.

Speaker 1: 22:16

Yeah, I think I mean a good thing whether we are discussing a lot here is should we? I mean, how much should we use for? Should we let it grow organically, and when can we actually become a sustainable business? And I think we can. We set out to.

Speaker 1: 22:33

The technology is built around 3D printers and we are printing all our parts and that means we are hardly. I mean the 3D printers are super cheap, so the tooling costs are low. The filament is, I mean, super low. The whole thing is built around. Products are parts that we can source off the shelves from other companies really easily and widely available. So the whole thing is built around. Make it as cheap as possible, but still good. Right, but take stock that we can get many places and then we combine those with the technology.

Speaker 1: 23:08

I would say so that's the 3D printers. We have quite some sophisticated designs and at this moment some of the features that we have built into the parts, you cannot even mold them at this point. So I mean, yeah, so sort of the scales. It will naturally scale slower than if you have set out to do this big product where you might need to sell 100,000 units before you, even at a cost break even point right. So, yeah, we are soon making money. We just need to sell a few hundred units per year before we can actually call that a sustainable business. But we will, of course, take these money and reinvest that into the learnings and scale up the turbines. That has always been the vision, so we can pursue our mission of making cleaner and more green energy for people around the world.

Speaker 2: 24:08

So if you say we jump back to that moment, to Andreas' house, yeah, knowing what you know now, if someone had come to that moment and said here's two million euros to continue your current trajectory around when that's of a wind turbines, or your current trajectory in terms of the approach you've taken now, what would you do?

Speaker 1: 24:38

If I have the knowledge that I have now, I think I would have said no to the money because I honestly don't think we would have succeeded in making the flying wind turbines. The problem is just really really complicated. Google they used I think it's hundreds of millions of dollars for it and they were hyper-aggressively in their steps up right, they went for an offshore turbine to see if it could make it work. So it's really huge risk, huge reward as well, and then they had to close it down. Of course, it's been super. It looked like super fun for the Google people as well, and I have only talked with a few of them at these conventions. So maybe you've just had fun in some years, but I mean, we are building up something that just have this vision in the future to really have an impact, and that's just so motivating. So, yes, if I had the knowledge that I'm sitting here with now, then I should have gone back in time and slapped myself for taking the money Like yes, at that point in time. Ha, ha, ha ha.

Speaker 2: 25:49

Talking back through it today. Just this experience. What's one thing that stood out for you?

Speaker 1: 25:59

Ooh, one thing that stood out Then, I think that is to always be able to sort of adapt and not go down one path just because you know it's the right one. We have been exploring so many different things with the current turbine that we have at the moment. I mean we were so that was gets a little bit technical. I don't know if that's okay, but when a wind turbine you can have the blades turn, we call that pitch when the pitch, so the blades can individually turn or they can just be fixed in place. That's called a stall-regulated turbine or a pitch-regulated turbine. And we were trying. First we tried a stall-regulated turbine, then we went with a pitch-regulated turbine. Ah, that was too hard. Then we went back to a stall-regulated turbine and now we are back to a pitch-regulated turbine.

Speaker 1: 26:54

And I mean it's a huge change in the technology and what you have in the controllers and everything. But we just go on. We go, just do small iteration loops and then we change and we're not building ourselves into a product that is super locked down, and with that I mean we always able to adapt at least something to it, having the thoughts going into a project like this and saying I can just think my way out of this when we're sitting at Andreas' house. No way, we would never have succeeded with that. If we have laid out a plan, that is not, that cannot change. You pave the road as you go right With the learnings, and being able to track back and go in another direction is the key moment. I think that you are not learning in your university.

Speaker 2: 27:54

Yeah. So kind of like a very clear mission around why you're doing what you're doing, what the outcome is, but being very loose on exactly how that's gonna happen and not paint yourself into a corner at any stage by throwing too much money or time into one approach which locks you down one avenue.

Speaker 1: 28:17

Yeah, because if you just get painted into that corner then it's really difficult to get out of it. And I think for a startup, this is just the advantage of being in a startup, right, that is that you are agile, that is that you are quick. That is that it's like when you have a big company. It's like a super tanker. You cannot, I mean the direction, is gonna take forever to change the direction. But in the startup we are small. Now we like hydrofoils and wings and stuff like this. So we are a small hydrofoil plane, right or boat. We can just quickly turn direction and yeah.

Speaker 2: 28:55

But it's got this weird image. It's like a massive oil tanker on those sails. Those massive sails are still giving them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:02

No, no, no. The hydrofoils is that's something that's under the water, it's wings under the water. You see these on the America's Cobbo some stuff like this, the sailboats that's there, yeah.

Speaker 2: 29:14

Awesome. Well, chris that's been really interesting. Thank you for sharing your journey. Thanks for having me, James. As you heard today, coaching opens up a whole range of insights and areas to explore. If you have a potential moment to revisit and podcast, or just want to learn more about coaching, book in for a 30 minute chat with me at peer-effectscom.